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In this excerpt from VIDA News Live, Senior Correspondent Dom Garrett sits down with Clive Bates, the director of The Counterfactual – a consulting and advocacy practice focussed on a pragmatic approach to sustainability and public health.

Clive has worked across the public, private and not-for-profit sectors. After starting at IBM, he moved into work in the environment sector. After spending six years as the Director of Action on Smoking and Health UK, a campaign to reduce the harms caused by tobacco, he joined Prime Minister Tony Blair’s Strategy Unit in 2003 as a civil servant and worked in senior roles in both public sector and for the United Nations in Sudan.

In this conversation, Clive and Dom discuss what has gone wrong with the World Health Organization’s stance on tobacco and harm reduction, the importance of listening to the stories of consumers and not dismissing them as “just anecdotal”, and the “duty of curiously” that public health officials should have when approaching tobacco harm reduction.

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